Don’t Keep Your Head in the Clouds – How to Protect Yourself from Virtual Risk

In todays world where many organizations have adopted and migrated most of their activity to the cloud, Cloud Risk Management couldn’t be more crucial.

Companies embrace cloud-based solutions, such as AWS, Azure and G-suite for their daily business activities, creating new operational playing fields with many advantages, but with more vulnerabilities as well.

Although most cloud services have some levels of security, misconfigured cloud servers can be a back door for a data breach. Once you deploy these solutions, you are the one truly responsible for the protection of your organizations data and valuable assets.

Watch this webinar session where Centraleyes’s Founder and CEO, Yair Solow, and his special guest TJ Gonen, Head of Cloud Security Products at Check Point, engage in an intriguing conversation about how Cloud Security and the roles associated with it have changed, why security has to be 100% automated and what are some best practices on how to make sure you keep your head on the ground and protect yourself from evolving cloud risks.

Webinar Transcript:

Yair Solow:
So today’s topic is, you know, don’t keep your head in the clouds, how to protect yourself from virtual risks. So welcome everybody back to our flash webinar.
You know, for those of you who are new, this is a format where we keep it pretty short. We bring on some amazing guests, and today I am lucky enough to have TJ Gonen is the head of a cloud security product at Checkpoint. Maybe I’ll just give a quick intro on TJ, and then we’ll get started. So TJ has over 20 years of cybersecurity experience. He’s now heads that cloud security Checkpoint like I mentioned. But previously and that’s where I met TJ, he was the co-founder and the chief executive at Fortego Labs, which was a leading startup in serverless security, and was acquired by Checkpoint in 2019. So, you know, a huge win there for TJ. And He also served previously as the 3 strategy officer at New Alto, and then also at executive roles at Howden Systems.

So, TJ Before I hand it over to you, just maybe a few stats I’ll mention that I kind of picked up from one of Checkpoint’s latest reports on cloud security. So first of all, it’s probably, like, 82 percent of enterprise security teams today said that their traditional security solutions either don’t work at all or only provide limited functions in the cloud environments. And that’s up almost 20 percent in 2019. Right? So that was around 65 percent in 2019. 68 percent of organizations used two or more different public cloud providers today, which obviously creates additional complexity there.

And then, you know, just some of the leading threats that we saw as the respondents were surveyed. Misconfiguration of the cloud platforms was number one there at almost 70 percent.
And the main security barrier to cloud adoption was a lack of qualified staff and then, you know, budget coming after that. So some interesting stats there. We’ll get the Q&A at the end, but maybe before I we get into the topic itself too deep, maybe just a little bit of background about yourself. I know you have a very exciting journey, which, you know, includes both corporate and startup worlds. And we’ve interacted in both, so we’d love to hear more from you about that journey.

TJ Gonen:
Yeah. Sure. I’ll be short because I think you’re getting a bit of that, and it also makes me sound really old, which I am from Israel originally. I have lived in the US for the last 12 years. I did start one the cybersecurity, actually in the Israeli Army, where a lot of people started famous 8200 unit. But since then yeah. Did a couple of startups, then joined the corporate world. It was fun. Always in cyber. Then did a startup again, and now back into the big company world. Checkpoint is a huge company. So and running cloud security. Yeah. Live in the US. 3 kids. Crazy life. The use’.

Yair Solow:
Yeah. So maybe just also a few more points on the Fortiva lab, which I know a little bit more close. And other is my brother was actually a partner in that company since I’m Okay. But there I remember just watching you guys build that company from, really, from the ground up into a space, you know, sometimes in startups, you know, there’s kinda two different types of startups. One is that, you know, you’re trying to just make a better mousetrap of something that exists already. Which in my eyes is probably and I’m not gonna say the easier, but definitely a smoother path, you know, because you’re not defining a new vertical. And then sometimes you’re defining a new vertical. I think it will let you guys define serverless when nobody’s doing that word meant. How was that experience for you?

TJ Gonen:
You’re right, by the way. I think that I always say that I agree with you on the easier I nothing is easy, by the way. Building a company, building a startup, starting a business it’s never easy. So and if it’s easy, then something really strange happened, it’s never easy, but it’s easier because it’s sort of when you have an alternative way to do something and you can come back and say, hey, I can just do this at 10 percent of the price or 10 percent of the effort, there’s a line item on the Excel spreadsheet. Someone’s already spending money. There’s an owner. You can say, hey, I wanna talk with the guy who’s in charge of that system. So it’s a much easier, I would say, process. Right? Or at this easier to grasp. For us, we decided to bet on what we call cloud 2.0. So the first generation of cloud was this EC2 machines, virtual machines. Right? We virtualized the network and we virtualized the machine. And serverless compute came in and said, hey, you’re not gonna want to manage machines in the cloud. You actually just want to use a service. And if you need a compute, a piece of compute, you want to call something And if you need a billion of them, you don’t wanna manage auto scale groups and networks around that. No. You just wanna click a button to write the script. And there’s gonna be a billing of them. Actually, and if then you need 5 of them, then Amazon will take care of it. So we really believe that serverless is the future. And I think that it’s very clear right now that past platform as a service and services that just happen serverless is the future. So we took a gamble that it will happen. And you know what they say about startups. There are two ways to be wrong. Being right at the wrong time and being wrong. And both of them look exactly the same. You can’t tell the difference between them. So we happen to be right at before the right time, but we didn’t have to wait too long for serverless compute and containerization and microservices to be sound very popular. But might as well, you know, it could take 10 years, and then it would be totally the wrong the right thing at the wrong time. Yep. Different outcome also, yeah, for sure.

Yair Solow:
Yeah. No. So definitely exciting and I love to watch guys grow the company and sell it to Checkpoint. So maybe just, like, segueing into that as you kind of taking over the cloud security products there. You know, one of the things we is really a kind of view. The challenge is an evolution of cloud. And, you know, when we think about cloud risk and security around that, what do you use to see today that actually is considered like a cloud risk or, you know, security risk in the cloud today?

TJ Gonen:
I think one of the interesting observations being now in this space for 4, 5 years is that cloud doesn’t change anything and changes everything at the same time. What I mean by that is that when you look at if you look 10 years from now, you just close your eyes, you imagine 10 years from now, it’s very easy to assume that most workloads are gonna live in a public cloud environment, and you’re gonna consume them as a service using to using cloud providers if you know today and maybe some new ones. And then we’re asking yourself, okay, what do I need to do in security for this new data center environment? Right? Or this new application environment? You actually need to do exactly the same things you used to do in your traditional data center. They just look different. It’s the same thing. You still need to do network security. You still need to do segmentation. You still need to do configuration management, tax management, vulnerability you still need to do application security. You still need to do threat hunting. You still need to do all of these things. But here’s what changing. Cloud changed the way networks are built. One change the way the types of computing you need to protect or make sure that they are configured. They but more than anything else. It changed the speed. That is the biggest issue. I call it the hundred times mindset. Everything is a hundred times more complex, a hundred times scale and a hundred times speed. Everything. And the other thing that happened is that for the first time, really, for the first time in the history of compute, I think, the power lies within the developer. And everything is a script away. And I think the biggest challenge that we see customers facing or organizations facing is just sending there and saying, okay. I think I solved it. And then understanding that there are 99 times that problem happening in places that didn’t even know existed because some developer decided to launch a data center in the cloud. Right? And so I think the biggest thing that we’re seeing is how do you actually find a way to make security as automated as what you’re trying to protect. If you think about what we talked before around serverless, And if you think about the DevOps culture, right, discontinuous development, deployment, and everything being a script away. A lot of the stuff that we’re talking is sort of automated. So security has to find a new way, and that’s why I’m not surprised the survey you mentioned. Actually, I’m here I am surprised because you said 60 percent, I can’t remember that their tools don’t fit. Honestly, I just don’t understand what tool exactly fits in the cloud because all tools, they’re just not designed for that. They’re unless you have a super small cloud environment, and then it’s not if it’s stagnant, and then I would say, why are you moving to the cloud in the first place? But unless you have that, I just don’t understand how tools would work. The infrastructure is different, scale and speed is different. So that’s the biggest thing that we’re seeing, and I think that market is getting used to that. And you see the evolution. People, a lot of times, started with point solutions because that’s what was there. Startups, like the one we had and others. And as they evolve, just like what happened, they just never said, just a second. I have multi cloud, which you mentioned. I have 3 different clouds, 20 different types of workloads, hundred new services Amazon introduces every day. A bunch of developers running like, there’s no tomorrow, developing and deploying. My boss telling me, Listen. Whatever you do, don’t get in their way. And me needing to secure this with existing tools, I don’t. I don’t see how that works.

Yair Solow:
Yeah. I think I think one of the biggest also misconceptions one think in cloud today is that people a little bit have this assumption that if they put their stuff into AWS or, you know, into other providers that they’re built-in security. And that’s just not true. Right? I think that there’s you know, obviously, those environments do have certifications and proper kind of base security built in. But as soon as you start in, you know, implementing different tools there and solutions, whether they’re security or just operational tools, you may be opening up back doors or think or you’re misconfiguring things there that need to be managed. And that I think is, like, you know, the piece that makes us very complex. Because, like you mentioned, there’s hundreds of services being added in. Right?

TJ Gonen:
Let me suggest a way to look at this because I think that’s interesting actually what to mention. When you look at the stack, if you just try to, you know, to depict a super simplistic picture of an application stack, which is sometimes I see people do when they talk about the shared responsibility model, then they say, hey, you see, you don’t need to take care of infrastructure. You don’t let’s say that you’re using servers. Then you would say, you don’t need to take care of the machine. Don’t care which operating system is running. You don’t care if it’s on the program. You actually you do not care because you don’t even if you care, you don’t have access to it anyway. Right? So one, theory, you can see that part of this stack, the more you use platform as a service, is being secured by the cloud provider. It’s being hardened. By the cloud provider. What this picture though totally misses is that instead of 5 of these stacks, you have a billion of them. And they’re very different. And so, yeah, you’re right. You need to take care of theoretically less things. You just need to take care of a billion instances of these less things. So you find yourself with serverless. I’ll just give you an example. So serverless functions is and again, for the audience, it’s a way to use compute without caring about operating system, hardware, or anything. It’s just like, hey. Do this for me. It comes up. It does something and it goes away. You need to manage it. No scale or nothing. In the server structure, you could say, oh, damn it. I just need to configure the function with permissions. Right? That’s one. And then that’s it. Nothing else. I don’t need operating. There’s no patches. There’s no nothing. I’ll scan the code because I’m writing the code, so I’ll make sure that my code is not vulnerable. Then I’m done. What you forget is that once you start using stuff like that, in a lot of the organizations we used to work with, there are 20 thousand serverless functions. So you actually yeah. You only need to do these 3 things. For 20 thousand terrorist functions, the change 20 times a day. The problem is way bigger. It’s thinner, but it’s way bigger. Right? So and I think that’s the right way to look at it. So to your point, that’s what I’m saying. It’s all about scale and speed in this environment. It’s not about solving a specific yeah. I can do this. It’s how can you do this a thousand times when literally the developers which are the people on the other side or the application people if you if you look at what happened in the last two years, their marching orders is go fast. And your marching order as a security person who stay out of the F-ing way. That’s your marching order. And so and finding a way tooling process to actually bring these two together is that’s where cloud security challenges.

Yair Solow:
Yeah. I think it’s also interesting that you like you mentioned earlier about the DevOps seems becoming part of this, like, you know, main stakeholder in this whole process. And when you start to think about things like risk and compliance wherein the past, they had nothing to do with that. Right. They’re front and center there. Right? Because a lot of the things that they’re doing are impacting their organizations, you know, risks and, you know, meeting compliance in parallel.

TJ Gonen:
And I would add to that. So that plus one, look at that. Two things happen now. One, I agree to complete, and I’ve been talking about this for a few years now that they secure the new security engineering group is made out of in the cloud’s DevOps people, developers. You cannot do security engine you know, old security old. Historical security engineers sit sat down on the checkpoint firewall and configured rules. Open ports, closed ports, configured network architecture, a new security the 2021 security engineer writes scripts. That’s what it does. There’s no there’s very little UI to you don’t no one can move a mouse as fast as a developer can deploy an application. So the UI means very less in this environment. The second thing that happens is if you go back to the developer and you say, listen. You remember? This thing you deployed two weeks ago is Missco Figured. I needed to change it.
Man, he’s gonna spank you so hard two weeks, that’s like 7 versions ago. He moved on to 5 other things. Plus, now he needs to remember what he did fix it, retest it, redeploy this.
That’s a huge challenge in this new world because we used to have it. This is maybe one of the biggest thing. Security used to be, like, lawyers, like, lawyers. Right? Redline, hey, I want to send this NDA to someone. They’ll get back to you with, like, this big redline thing. Security used to be able to say, hey, wait a minute. Let me get my act together. That’s it. There’s no wait a minute and there’s no let me get my act together. So you have to find a way to move as fast and actually incomplete harmony with the developer and not come back to them after, like, 3 weeks. So that’s that’s another thing. And I agree with you. Security engineers are developers now more than any other time.

Yair Solow:
Yeah. So and I I think that’s a practical place. So, you know, taking your experience in this world, like, what are the tips and advice you have to companies that are trying to make this kind of like, migration over to that old and kind of historical way of looking at security. Right. Everybody in COVID has, you know, kind of expedited their move over to to cloud. Obviously, right, probably 10 to 15 years on fast forward. Right? And that was because everybody went very fast this past year to do things. I think that a lot of security and missed teams are actually catching up and out to make sure that, you know, we’ve checked all the boxes, you know, because we need to probably do it as flow as usual.

TJ Gonen:
Yeah. So I would say practical advice beyond the, you know, the high-level tenants, the guidelines of you have to automate everything. So I will just say, here’s one guideline to the audience. It ain’t done till it’s automated. Whatever you’re working on, whatever cloud security project you’re working on. If it’s not automated, you’re too slow. Now can you get to full automation day one, probably not? But put that as the definition of done. Whatever you’re trying to solve to has to be automated. If there’s manual intervention, it’s gonna be too slow, you’re gonna the banks. So that’s like as a high-level tenant. Below that, if you look at the practicalities of what you need to solve to, then if you recall When we started, I said that some things don’t change or nothing changes and everything changes. The stuff you need to solve to, so very much still the same. You need to do segmentation. You need to do posture management, configuration management. You need to do application security. You still need to do all that stuff. You need to have visibility in monitoring. So the journey or the pillars are still the same. And I would go and suggest practically not to try to tackle them all at once. Because it’s gonna be overwhelming if you’re starting from scratch. But I will say, try to tackle them as much as you can with those little platforms as you can. Because otherwise, you’ll find yourself at the end of the journey with 17 different solutions, which are really hard to manage at a large scale. And then, more practically, I would start with a couple of very clear guidelines. One segmentation, really easy. So make sure that production is separated from staging environments, from development environments, make sure that applications are segmented. And, actually, the cloud provides very good tools to do that within even the cloud tools themselves, security group management, VPC, stuff like that, just make sure that you have a tool that can manage that in scale. That’s number one. Then pass your management. Toll starts with what you know. Right? And, I mean, you guys have centralized to do the same. Right? What do you know about your environment? Where is stuff? Who put it there? Is it properly configured? Am I still compliant? And you want to automate that? Because, again, your developer is going to deploy something. So you wanna make sure that at the moment of deployment or even prior to deployment during CICD. You scan for it and automatically say, hey, listen. You just try to deploy an EC two machine into a production workload that is has an allow all permission. Let’s say that that’s a room that sounds like you shouldn’t have. Then you wanna be able to automate that process of saying and let’s take this through automation. Let’s let’s just design the full automated process. Automated process would actually say, listen developer. You just someone or it would say, this someone tried to deploy this thing. It would actually say it already during Si City. Before it hit the runtime environment. Someone tried to deploy this thing. Here’s what the policy that he actually wasn’t okay like, wasn’t attending to. It was allow all. Here’s the policy that should be there. Automatically generated a post send it to the developer so you can click a button and say, yeah, my bad apply. Right? And then when the workload actually gets to the runtime environment, make sure that you continuously scan for it and can compare it to what’s supposed to be there to identify drifts few identify drift automatically alert on it and maybe also automatically remediated to the last good known state. So, again, what everything and this is just and here’s the thing. I we just talked about the easy tool machine. What we just said, double that a thousand. It could it could be anything in the cloud. But that automation is gonna be impossible. Impossible. Impossible. So posture management and visibility And then you start need to start looking at the actual work on application security. Again, start to find the API and application security that is cloud native, so it can doesn’t require manual configurations, containers, serverless. Well, that’s I would but I would start with network segmentation and posture. And then start to sort of work my way towards cloud workload protection and stuff like that. But I if you but then you could go back and say, okay. One thing. Only one thing. Right? Now let’s say, visibility and posture management is where I would start. Just if you don’t know, then you don’t know.

Yair Solow:
Yeah. I think that’s obviously an area that we spend a lot of time on trying to visualize the risk in a way that smaller teams, you know, sometimes less technical teams that are obviously managing a lot of the risk areas of compliance, but have to have deep understanding that are getting that visibility. Really in a way that, you know, it’s quantified and visualized for them. So then they can also then go mitigate it properly and also prioritize. Maybe just, you know, meeting on that? What are some of the biggest mistakes for misconceptions you see around, like, you know, cloud risks today?

TJ Gonen:
So I think one of them is the cloud is insecure. It’s still funny. Right? Like, we can’t I still meet our organizations and we can’t move to the cloud because it’s insecure. Cloud by itself, I would say, almost is more secure than probably 99 percent of the companies out there because the cloud providers spend a lot of time on securing the infrastructure. So the AWS infrastructure, I’m sure, more secure than even Citigroup. It’s just super secure. They have more money more power, more brands than anyone else. So I think still the misconception is the cloud is not secure. Where I think the cloud can be even where it can be more secure than your existing environments. You just need the right tool and the right mindset around it. So that’s number one. The second one is actually what you touched on, what we touched on earlier. And even though we’ve checked with our firewall company originally. Right? Now we’re a lot more. People say, oh, no. I’ll just put a firewall. Sort of. I’ll just that doesn’t work like that. The world the world has moved a bit. You can’t solve it. In the same tools. Yeah. You need to you need a firewall function. You need to segment. You need to create that separation or zero environment between your networks or workload. But you can just use these old tools. And I would say the last one, which is tools can solve, like, tools can solve everything. It’s a mindset shift more than just tools. And we talked about it with the developers. That’s a big mindset shift. The mindset shift of, you know, saying no, understanding, embracing the fact. You lost the right to say no.

Embracing it. Just embrace it. And then that, by the way, leads to a lot of That that leads to a lot of positive changes. Because if you say, okay, assume and this is this would be the most practical advice I can give anyone. Assume that you just can’t say no. And can the developer do nothing. And the developer can go and use whatever he wants and you still need to make sure that things are secure. What would you do then?

Yair Solow:
Right. Without putting those safeguards in place so that he has an environment to act freely, but then also doesn’t step right.

TJ Gonen:
Yeah.

Yair Solow:
And I think that that automation point before is Yeah.

TJ Gonen:
Automation and speaking the developer language, I would say, is very important too.

Yair Solow:
Alright. Cool. So we’re heading towards the end of the session here. I wanna just pull up a few questions that came in from Sure. everybody else wants to post now is the time. So Dimitri put up a question around what are the pros and cons of relying on security solutions offered by your cloud provider versus relying on security solutions offered by third party companies Right. which would have to integrate with the cloud. Like, do you have an opinion on that one versus the other?

TJ Gonen:
I would say, first, it’s Generally speaking, I would say you wanna use the best tool in your context and depending on your long term strategies. So what I wanna say assume that you’re a multi cloud environment, I almost wanna say upfront, that’s gonna be really hard to use the cloud provider tools. Because you’re gonna use 3 cloud provider tools. And then someone’s gonna need to sit there and write policies to all 3 cloud providers and manage the relation with the developers on all 3 cloud providers. There, I would say it’s really easy. If you have a multi cloud environment or you think you’re gonna have a multi cloud environment, take a third party tool that knows how to work with the entire environment or knows how to manage the cloud provider security tools, but abstract them from your team because you’re not gonna have enough security people or security administrators in your team to manage 50 different tools. The and then but I would say if you solve that, Then the only other thing I would say, you what we mentioned earlier, you wanna go with a platform that can solve more than one use case, network, posture, workload, all that stuff. And usually, with the cloud provider, it’s gonna you’re gonna find it hard to find something that does everything. But if you have if I’m a startup now, and I only need to solve Azure security. And I have a small environment, two VPCs, whatever, you know, maybe use Azure. It’s just because, again, you can probably get around the limitations in the multi complex environment. So Yeah. That’s probably where I think the separation lies.

Yair Solow:
I think once you go to the mid-market and up, you’re, yeah, a lot more complex kind of

TJ Gonen:
Once you have more than one club why there are more than 3 form VPCs you’re starting to run into challenges.

Yair Solow:
Let’s take one more question here. So what are some of the important frameworks and standard that should comply, you know, today, organizations should comply with in order to protect from cloud risk. Any of the any of the frameworks that come to mind?

TJ Gonen:
We’re running into mostly the same ones that you’re running into in the day to day, the cloud. I mean, there’s a couple of additional ones of like SOC and a couple of others for Saas companies and hosted providers. But PCI, HIPAA, same CIO, same stuff is coming over and over and over again just has a different flavor.

Yair Solow:
Yeah. So a lot of the old ones are now, you know, kind of touching the cloud as well. Like you mentioned, and there’s obviously the CSA with, you know, Right. Which is a good cloud one. And then there’s some also application security ones focused today on cloud development. I think that are coming through that.

TJ Gonen:
Right. But I think that a lot of them live like we talked earlier on security solutions also, they sort of they existed just at a different flavor to them and they’re being readapted to the cloud environment. But, hey, I mean, you probably see the same. It’s just mostly around the big ones are the same. They’re just adapted.

Yair Solow:
Maybe a question for me. What do you see on the horizon today? On, you know, when it comes to the next big thing in cloud security?

TJ Gonen:
Yeah. I think that there are two things that are super important. That journey towards automation that we talked about is number one. It’s gonna be number one for a long long time because that entails a lot of things. The second thing I think is context. And one of and then you talked about the IT and the context of centralized. What happens today with generate first generation, cloud security, tools and processes is that they create a lot of noise. And you just stand in front of these screens that have like a billion configuration problem alerts. Why? Because you have a billion of things, and there are probably misconfigured. And then you sit there and you get it’s like my inbox. I just stopped reading at some point. There are so many unreads. It doesn’t matter anymore. And you sit down in front of this billion alerts and say, okay. What now? What do you want? And I think what you find out is that people don’t care about vulnerabilities. They actually wanna know what’s vulnerable. And I think next-generation security tools have to be in that sort of a sub segment of automation, have to be more actionable and more focused. Like, just don’t just sit there and tell me. I don’t have the people, the mindset, or the time to do anything with if you tell me a billion things. Tell me the one thing that I should care about. More than anything else and tell me how to fix it. And, hopefully, it’s a click of a mouse or automated. Don’t just sit there and tell me. And if you sit today, there’s a lot of in the cloud security. I would say cloud security 1.0 was reported telling you, sounds like my relationship with my wife, telling me where I’m wrong. Doesn’t help me. Need to know how to fix it.

Yair Solow:
Yeah. So on that note, that’s what it noise and action output. So we get we usually end the session with a quick flash 5 for some personal questions for you. So I’m gonna shoot you over those as we go through them quickly. The first one is what is your favorite quote?

TJ Gonen:
So you can I can curse a bit. Right? Yeah. Sure. I can. Of course. So I would say I think it’s from the Godfather. He said he said You don’t see a bee spending a lot of time, explaining to a fly that honey is better than S***.

Yair Solow:
What is something that most people don’t know about you and would surprise them?

TJ Gonen:
They don’t know. I actually I’m super sensitive. Like, I cry at movies.

Yair Solow:
I did not know that. That is surprising. What is your idea of a perfect day?

TJ Gonen:
Perfect day? Start it mostly depends on the start of the day, which is in the gym, me, and and my music. The sound of Iron. That’s it. That’s the start from there. It’s gonna be fine.

Yair Solow:
Yeah. If you start there, it’s good. If you were a cybersecurity professional, what would you be?

TJ Gonen:
A kindergarten teacher.

Yair Solow:
I don’t know if I‘d send my kids there.

TJ Gonen:
Well, that is fair. This is fair.

Yair Solow:
Last question, when you’re not dealing with cybersecurity or your cloud risk, what are you doing in your spare time?

TJ Gonen:
So I spend time with family mostly with my kids, watch movies, sports, a lot of sports with watch UFC.

Yair Solow:
Well, TJ. First of all, awesome talking to you today. It was really a pleasure, and a great conversation super insightful and the whole new world of information that we did not have before. Next month, we’ll be having a follow up you know, in our next webinar, we’ll send everybody a notification on the topic and the exact date. And just kind of mention about the Centraleyes has launched day free trial on the website for its first party, third party and board solutions. So anybody’s interested in learning more about that, go to Centraleyes.com and we’d love to help you learn more about what we built. Everybody else, thank you very much for attending today, and have a great day. Take care.